9-11

Knowing the truth about the Kennedy Assassination is understanding America today.

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9-11

Postby Cappy Erikksen » Sun Dec 03, 2006 6:35 pm

OK, I reckon I joined these forums a little too quickly. I, like the majority of Americans, don't believe the Warren Commission's findings nor any other goverment accounts of what happened in November of 1963. I thought that's what this forum was all about. Now, after this recent barrage of posts concerning every crackpot conspiracy theory you can think of, I'm starting to wonder.

So, you people who think G. Dubya is a retarded monkey with no capacity for complex thought are now accusing him of masterminding the attacks on the W.T.C. and the Pentagon? Jesus H. Christ, you gotta be kidding! You probably have a photograph of Cynthia McKinney hung on your living room wall if you believe that sort of tripe! I suppose you also think Tupac is still alive, smoking a joint somewhere with Elvis and Jim Morrison, plotting to poison Adolf Hitler, who's also still alive and hiding underneath a conch shell in Brazil.

I think maybe liberals are people who had the rational parts of their brains removed right after they were born, in a government experiment to see what causes mental retardation. What really kills me is that liberals always think they're the greatest geniuses in the world, but make some of the most ridiculous statements. It's not 1969 anymore...put down the L.S.D. for fux sake!
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Postby Clemens Lowenstein » Sun Dec 03, 2006 8:50 pm

Just put your attitudes aside (no offence!) and start reading & watching.
For example this little gem:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... +mysteries

No way GWB masterminded 911. He was a tool, just like key members of goverment and agencies have been for ages.

Just read, watch and compare. What makes more sense? A building for the first and only time in history containing a core structure of solid steel collapses into the ground looking EXACTLY like a controlled demolition due to single fires, without anything hitting it - or indeed a controlled demolition?

Go and search for "wtc building 7" and notice, that there IS at least ONE coverup - due to what reasons ever. Don't care who or how, just notice! Then start questioning: Why?

Once you dig into the "911 Commision Report" a little deeper, I'm sure you find it as laughable as the "Warren Report". It just takes time to realise.
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Postby Cappy Erikksen » Mon Dec 04, 2006 1:22 am

Thanks for your response, Clemens. I just visited the video you linked me to. I don't have time to watch it all now, but I will. I did skim over the list of comments though, and saw that the commenters are almost exclusively hysterical bush/republican-hating liberals with their common axes to grind. I really doubt that any topic they believe in is anything more than another attempt to discredit an administration that they hate...irrationally I might add.

Now, don't get me wrong. I am NOT a republican, and I do NOT like George Bush. However, I am not a democrat either. I think both parties are overflowing with self-serving jerks who take their orders from Zionist Jews rather than the American people. That's why we're so heavy into this Middle-East BS. If we weren't spending so much time, money and resources to help Israel try to annihalate Islam, we could live in peace and be independently wealthy. Of course there are other things we'd have to do to, such as secure our borders against illegal aliens and start kicking the freeloading bastards back to the other side of the border where they belong.

Anyhow, I seldom vote, but when I do it's for the Libertarian party. Regardless of any of that, I don't nurture any irrational hatreds for any particular politician or political party. I find both of the ones we're stuck with equally distasteful. I do, however, think that Michael Moore and his kind are disgusting ultra-liberal pigs who can take a bow when America is finally classified as a third-world slum, due to all this destructive "multiculturalism" the democrats seem to find so appealing.
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Postby David Octopus » Mon Dec 04, 2006 1:36 pm

9/11 >
The issue here is that the official story is a hoax. It's now documented even by the 9/11 Comm. members that the investigation was a joke, among other things Pentagon told them three different accounts of the events and why they acted like in a stand down. Basically Cheney was in control of the US military at that morning, see secretary Mineta testimony etc. They even wanted to put Pentagon on trial for lying, well that didn't happen but also this inner discussion has been classified and witheld from the public for a couple of years before the Woodward's last book.

Condi, Tenet, Ashcroft have been warned as early as July 2001. Bush received PDB in August 2001 about Bin Laden striking US landmark targets now..

Now, I'm not going to the ample physical evidence but the demolitions of WTC complex into 100 micron fine dust is just beyond discussion. Airplane crashes don't vaporize giant steel-concrete structures, simply not possible, period.

We can debate the technicalities, and it makes little difference wheather some israeli commando planted thermite inside WTC (security provided by Bush's bro company) or the US millitary tested some high energy weapon or another scenario..

The important things is that the US government had the foreknowledge, didn't act in its duties and consequently tried to covered it up. That's enough for any jury to send those bastards into jail, guillotine or what have you. Once you start prosecute this limited angle, the house of cards might start to crack and fall and the real crime connection be revealed..
The problem is that with closet fascists like Hitlery Clinton or Pelosi in the Dem party there will be now drive for investigation. The public is not energized on this topic anyway at the moment..
Last edited by David Octopus on Mon Dec 04, 2006 3:03 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby Bob » Mon Dec 04, 2006 2:12 pm

Cappy, what crackpot conspiracy theories are you referring to? I will leave the 9/11 discussion out of this for now as Clemens and David have done a fine job in their rebuttals. I would suggest however, that you watch "Loose Change". Also google up "Operation Northwoods". Then tell me that 9/11 was what the government tells us it was. Do you think Sirhan acted alone in the RFK assassination? Do you think Watergate was connected to the JFK assassination? I take it you believe that MLK was killed by James Earl Ray and no one else. Yes, this is a JFK assassination forum. But that event is related to so many other events...including 9/11. That is MY opinion. That is what this forum is about. Expressing opinions and new ideas or new facts. One thing I DON'T do is talk down other members of this forum, no matter their political ideology.
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Postby Jorgen Sjolen » Mon Dec 04, 2006 4:44 pm

[quote="Bob"] I would suggest however, that you watch "Loose Change". Also google up "Operation Northwoods". Then tell me that 9/11 was what the government tells us it was. /quote]

Loose Change is the biggest piece of junk i have ever seen , and as usual if you cut and remix information you can get it how you want.

There is other , better movies for 9-11

The funniest part of the 9-11 is that the 9-11 truth movement not even can deside what really happend , it goes from bombs to thermite to nuclear bombs.
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Postby David Octopus » Mon Dec 04, 2006 5:28 pm

Jörgen> Well, that's how the gov. wants to frame the debate when in fact the "9/11 movement" no question about it has been infiltrated but in general most of them can agree on the following outline:

-CIA <> al-Qaeda active links during 90s
-gov. foreknowledge of 9/11
-gov. ordered millitary stand down on the morning of 9/11
-demolition of the WTC complex and the insurance-asbestos fraud link by LarryPullerStein
-coverup by the 9/11 Commission at least in the Pentagon's highjack response, foreknowledge, 9/11 terror cell funding etc.
..
.

=> and that's in sum more than enough to start prosecution today.
Well, in the 60s there was only one DA who was up to the task and took the case to the court, I doubt there is anybody that courageous now..
Last edited by David Octopus on Mon Dec 04, 2006 5:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Bob » Mon Dec 04, 2006 5:30 pm

"Loose Change" is not the perfect documentary, but it brings up some excellent facts. Such as...

- the reference to Operation Northwoods

- the role of Marvin Bu$h in terms of security for the Towers and Logan
Airport

- the bizarre behavior of Bu$h, Cheney and Rumsfeld that day

- the stock trading that took place right before 9/11

- the true physical evidence, especially the Pentagon

- the insurance policy for the Towers that was greatly increased just
before 9/11

- several witness accounts

- demolition evidence

- FAA records from that day

I'm sure there are better documentaries out there regarding 9/11, but this was one of the earliest out there. As in the JFK assassination, as the data is really studied and accessed, the truth will become more illuminated over time.
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Response To Cappy Erikksen:

Postby Bruce Patrick Brychek » Mon Dec 04, 2006 7:21 pm

Dear Mr. Wim Dankbaar, Cappy Erikksen, Clemens Lowenstein, David Octopus, Bob, Jorgen Sjolen, and Fellow JFK Forum Members,

While we agree, disagree, argue, debate, read, research, and analyze,
we are tackling some of the most intricate issues that government, citizens, and researchers have ever tackled in the history of the United States of America, and probably the world.

I am very proud overall of the JFK Forum, and the contributing members, and am proud to be among them.

Cappy, as Clemens stated, please loose the attitude.

Cappy, as Bob stated, what crackpot conspiracy theories ?

Jorgen Sjolen, you are correct that the funniest part is that the "truth movement" can't even decide what really happened, it goes from bombs to thermite to nuclear bombs. You are partially right, but only because Investigators were not allowed to investigate the steel wreckage of the Twin Towers. President Bush literally ordered all of the structural steel from the aftermath of 09.11.2001 to be loaded on a slow boat to China, to be melted down, so the families of the victims would not be upset.
So it is really funny how obvious the cover-up was, and is, to this very day. But not funny Ha Ha. Funny as in pathetic. Funny as in tragic.

However, thermite, cordite, primer cord, shape charges, and not nuclear bombs were used. Traces of thermite were found on the Twin Tower beams, along with melted beams in the basement. Thermite heats to 3,000 degrees. Jet fuel heats to about 1,200 degrees. Special steel beams as used in the Twin Towers need 3,000 degrees to melt.

Let's back up just a little to when Stalin and Churchill told Roosevelt that the Japanese were going to bomb Pearl Harbor. Churchill and Roosevelt knew to the day that Pearl Harbor was going to be attacked. But Roosevelt did not want another Depression. So oops, 3,000 + dead at Pearl Harbor, not including injured. But what the hell, that got us into WW II, the really big, big war.

Viet Nam, still not a war. Still not sure why we went there. Oops, 59,000 + dead, and over 500,000 physically or mentally injured permanently. But what the hell, we got us a really big war for a while, and we gave the dead guys medals. Sorry to the 93,000 homeless Viet Nam Veterans alive today, we can't give you benefits because we need money for another war.
And forgive us you 250,000 Homeless American Veterans of today, what more do you want. You got out alive. You get to live in cardboard boxes in a Free America. Hell, we now call you heroes. What more do you want. We need more money to increase this really good war that we got going.

Bay of Pigs, yes we'll help. No, we change our minds. Oops 3,000 + killed, tortured, or missing over a 1 -2 year period.

Operation Northwoods where the CIA and DIA agree to bomb America and Cuba and blame it on the Communists so we could really invade Cuba, and possible get people really behind Viet Nam. Wow, there's a fine plan.

09.11.2001 Oops, 3,000 + dead or poisoned. No big deal, we got a war in Iraq. Wow, what a deal. So sorry about the 10,000 already killed, and only God knows how many injured. But what the hell, we got us another war for the war profiteers. Such a deal.

Two theories:

1. Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

2. If we forget the lessons of history, we are all bound to repeat them,
(or be victims of them.)

Cappy, you are new, and the above referenced people who have responded to you are all regular JFK Forum Contributors. Please study the things that they, and the JFK Forum discusses, then let us know your thoughts after real research, and analysis.

Cappy, anyway, welcome aboard. Just keep an open mind.

Respectfully,
Bruce Patrick Brychek.
Last edited by Bruce Patrick Brychek on Fri Dec 08, 2006 9:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Jorgen Sjolen » Thu Dec 07, 2006 12:54 pm

Bob wrote:"Loose Change" is not the perfect documentary, but it brings up some excellent facts. Such as...

- the reference to Operation Northwoods

- the role of Marvin Bu$h in terms of security for the Towers and Logan
Airport

- the bizarre behavior of Bu$h, Cheney and Rumsfeld that day

- the stock trading that took place right before 9/11

- the true physical evidence, especially the Pentagon

- the insurance policy for the Towers that was greatly increased just
before 9/11

- several witness accounts

- demolition evidence

- FAA records from that day

I'm sure there are better documentaries out there regarding 9/11, but this was one of the earliest out there. As in the JFK assassination, as the data is really studied and accessed, the truth will become more illuminated over time.


Demolition evidence , are you thinking of Dr Jones and his research?


Bruce Patrick Brychek wrote:Dear Mr. Wim Dankbaar, Cappy Erikksen, Clemens Lowenstein, David Octopus, Bob, Jorgen Sjolen, and Fellow JFK Forum Members,

While we agree, disagree, argue, debate, read, research, and analyze,
we are tackling some of the most intricate issues that government, citizens, and researchers have ever tackled in the history of the United States of America, and probably the world.

I am very proud overall of the JFK Forum, and the contributing members, and am proud to be among them.


Jorgen Sjolen, you are correct that the funniest part is that the "truth movement" can't even decide what really happened, it goes form bombs to thermite to nuclear bombs. You are partially right, but only because Investigators were not allowed to investigate the steel wreckage of the Twin Towers. President Bush literally ordered all of the structural steel from the aftermath of 09.11.2001 to be loaded on a slow boat to China, to be melted down, so the families of the victims would not be upset.
So it is really funny how obvious the cover-up was, and is, to this very day. But not funny Ha Ha. Funny as in pathetic. Funny as in tragic.

One question to this text.
First of all i wanna make it clear that i don´t like Bush and so on.
But why should they have saved the steel?
of course they could save a little of it. But never the entire towers, where is the place to held that?

Bruce Patrick Brychek wrote:However, thermite, primer cord, shape charges, and not nuclear bombs were used. Traces of thermite were found on the Twin Tower beams, along with melted beams in the basement. Thermite heats to 3,000 degrees. Jet fuel heats to about 1,200 degrees. Special steel beams as used in the Twin Towers need 3,000 degrees to melt.

Traces of themite where found , yes but the only one i heard it from is Dr Jones , and where are his research?

Bruce Patrick Brychek wrote:Let's back up just a little to when Stalin and Churchill told Roosevelt that the Japanese were going to bomb Pearl Harbor. Churchill and Roosevelt knew to the day that Pearl Harbor was going to be attacked. But Roosevelt did not want another Depression. So oops, 3,000 + dead at Pearl Harbor, not including injured. But what the hell, that got us into WW II, the really big, big war.

I belive the US would have goten involved anyway , but it is a shame it happen that way.

Bruce Patrick Brychek wrote:Viet Nam, still not a war. Still not sure why we went there. Oops, 59,000 + dead, and over 500,000 physically or mentally injured permanently. But what the hell, we got us a really big war for a while, and we gave the dead guys medals. Sorry to the 93,000 homeless Viet Nam Veterans alive today, we can't give you benefits because we need money for another war.
And forgive us you 250,000 Homeless American Veterans of today, what more do you want. You got out alive. You get to live in cardboard boxes in a Free America. Hell, we now call you heroes. What more do you want. We need more money to increase this really good war that we got going.

Calling a person hero because he has been to war is tragic to me.

Bruce Patrick Brychek wrote:Two theories:

1. Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Power is almost always corrupted

Bruce Patrick Brychek wrote:2. If we forget the lessons of history, we are all bound to repear them,
(or be victims of them.)

Thats true , as we the people vote the idiots in to the offices, it happens not just in America.
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Postby john geraghty » Fri Dec 08, 2006 7:31 pm

Cappy,
First of all let me say that I don't subscribe to every consiracy going. While I believe that there are discrepancies in the 9/11 investigation I do believe that they were brought down by Al Qaeda.
Now, the use of profanity should be curbed when discussing things in a civil manner on a forum.

Why do you assume that everyone here is a 'liberal', which is a blanket term for those who you do not consider to be conservative. Why must so many of your countrymen resort to generalisations such as these?
The term conservative is no longer relating to ecoomic policy, but rather a description of social policy, the same goes for 'liberal', both being basdardized forms of their original meanings.

Lastly I would like to take issue with your remarks about Cynthia McKinney, if you had done any research into Cynthia McKinneys actual statements with regard to 9/11 you would realise that the Washington post and afterwards Fox and CNN cut out significant parts of her remarks on a radio talkshow and lumped them together, making it seem like she insinuated that Bush had engineered 9/11.

Why is it that complex political and historical issues have to be so polarized into either conservative or liberal viewpoints?

John
http:/thepresidenthasbeenshot.4t.com
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re

Postby R Croxford » Sat Dec 09, 2006 10:09 pm

BLAM way to go bruce! As for Cappy he is no mind of matter.I wonder if he thinks Tim McNivin is a crackpot too. And as far as right or left we have enough right wing lover here already, Right Dan hehe. If you call Dan a Cynthia Mackinny lover he will freak.
http://www.codenamegrillfire.com/?n=1&id=1

Peace

Please use some kind of brain power in this forum. Please Cappy.


People who support 9-11 theory

Alex Jones
Andreas von Bülow
Barrie Zwicker
David Ray Griffin
James Fetzer
James "Jimmy" Walter
Jeff Rense
Jim Hoffman
Kevin Barrett
Steven E. Jones
Thierry Meyssan
Webster G. Tarpley
R Croxford
 

re

Postby R Croxford » Sat Dec 09, 2006 10:25 pm

Loose change ask as many questions as it tries to answer.
some facts are wrong some are right. There are enough right answwers to make you understand what it is saying. 9-11, JFK, RFK, MLK. Nam, WW11, WW1, Lincoln, Long, TWA 800 there are a ton of un answered questions on this planet, Is it wrong to try and find out the TRUTH?

Conspiracy buffs believe that E.O 11110 Has alot to do with JFK's Murder. But because one man says it is not true everybody agrees with him because he has a P.hd. A man with a P.hd say 9-11 is bull@#$% and no one want to believe him. Never understand that.
ok Cya Peace

Happy Holidays

oh and Dan, Merry Christmas so you do not think i am liberal nut.
R Croxford
 

Postby David Octopus » Mon Dec 11, 2006 6:06 pm

Croxford> The list of influential people questioning official narative of 9/11 goes way beyond that.. Check out for instance this list (and there are many more):

http://patriotsquestion911.com/


In terms of Cynthia McKinney, yes se has been setup by the media and her own political party which under the leadership of Pelosi and Clinton is basically that same rotten product as the Republican cowards..

Now, Cynthia was perhapas the only brave 9/11 aware congress person and she will go down to the history as a true and exceptional hero. I've already posted the links about the video from the public congressional hearing on 9/11 she sponsored and which was televised by C-span.. (transcript also available)
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Re: Response To Cappy Erikksen:

Postby McGoo » Mon Dec 18, 2006 4:36 am

Bruce Patrick Brychek wrote:Dear Mr. Wim Dankbaar, Cappy Erikksen, Clemens Lowenstein, David Octopus, Bob, Jorgen Sjolen, and Fellow JFK Forum Members,

While we agree, disagree, argue, debate, read, research, and analyze,
we are tackling some of the most intricate issues that government, citizens, and researchers have ever tackled in the history of the United States of America, and probably the world.

I am very proud overall of the JFK Forum, and the contributing members, and am proud to be among them.

Cappy, as Clemens stated, please loose the attitude.

Cappy, as Bob stated, what crackpot conspiracy theories ?

Jorgen Sjolen, you are correct that the funniest part is that the "truth movement" can't even decide what really happened, it goes from bombs to thermite to nuclear bombs. You are partially right, but only because Investigators were not allowed to investigate the steel wreckage of the Twin Towers. President Bush literally ordered all of the structural steel from the aftermath of 09.11.2001 to be loaded on a slow boat to China, to be melted down, so the families of the victims would not be upset.
So it is really funny how obvious the cover-up was, and is, to this very day. But not funny Ha Ha. Funny as in pathetic. Funny as in tragic.

However, thermite, cordite, primer cord, shape charges, and not nuclear bombs were used. Traces of thermite were found on the Twin Tower beams, along with melted beams in the basement. Thermite heats to 3,000 degrees. Jet fuel heats to about 1,200 degrees. Special steel beams as used in the Twin Towers need 3,000 degrees to melt.

Let's back up just a little to when Stalin and Churchill told Roosevelt that the Japanese were going to bomb Pearl Harbor. Churchill and Roosevelt knew to the day that Pearl Harbor was going to be attacked. But Roosevelt did not want another Depression. So oops, 3,000 + dead at Pearl Harbor, not including injured. But what the hell, that got us into WW II, the really big, big war.

Viet Nam, still not a war. Still not sure why we went there. Oops, 59,000 + dead, and over 500,000 physically or mentally injured permanently. But what the hell, we got us a really big war for a while, and we gave the dead guys medals. Sorry to the 93,000 homeless Viet Nam Veterans alive today, we can't give you benefits because we need money for another war.
And forgive us you 250,000 Homeless American Veterans of today, what more do you want. You got out alive. You get to live in cardboard boxes in a Free America. Hell, we now call you heroes. What more do you want. We need more money to increase this really good war that we got going.

Bay of Pigs, yes we'll help. No, we change our minds. Oops 3,000 + killed, tortured, or missing over a 1 -2 year period.

Operation Northwoods where the CIA and DIA agree to bomb America and Cuba and blame it on the Communists so we could really invade Cuba, and possible get people really behind Viet Nam. Wow, there's a fine plan.

09.11.2001 Oops, 3,000 + dead or poisoned. No big deal, we got a war in Iraq. Wow, what a deal. So sorry about the 10,000 already killed, and only God knows how many injured. But what the hell, we got us another war for the war profiteers. Such a deal.

Two theories:

1. Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

2. If we forget the lessons of history, we are all bound to repeat them,
(or be victims of them.)

Cappy, you are new, and the above referenced people who have responded to you are all regular JFK Forum Contributors. Please study the things that they, and the JFK Forum discusses, then let us know your thoughts after real research, and analysis.

Cappy, anyway, welcome aboard. Just keep an open mind.

Respectfully,
Bruce Patrick Brychek.


An excellent post!


For anyone who believes the official story of 911 please tell me what caused the 'collapse' of WTC 7. It wasn't hit by any plane and it had only slight damage from the debris from the twin towers and fire.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OdjPIZIDy4
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