Conflicting versions on grassy knoll/fence shooter

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Conflicting versions on grassy knoll/fence shooter

Postby Tom Bigg » Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:10 pm

I have been reading through the Douglass book "JFK and the Unspeakable". It strikes me as a Catholic apologetic, the writer was a graduate of theology at a Jesuit school; I also have a degree from one. He makes JFK look like he was suffering greatly against the CIA and its huge appetite for militarism and intrigue. Much of that is true, but he wasn't a martyr.

Something that keeps coming up in my thinking are trying to see the assassination plans so they make sense, and so the different versions are credible. James Files says he was alone behind the fence, other versions like that of that of Gordon Arnold and the deaf mute Ed Hoffman describe pairs of men. How do we reconcile these and other versions?
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Re: Conflicting versions on grassy knoll/fence shooter

Postby Slav » Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:51 am

My belief opinion is there were several shooters on the grassy knoll and each team was not aware of the other team just in case one team got caught.

Files only knew of him and Nicolletti

https://www.google.ca/search?q=grassy+k ... qORvayTwDM:
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Re: Conflicting versions on grassy knoll/fence shooter

Postby Tom Bigg » Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:31 pm

But the deaf mute and others saw two people behind the picket fence, you can't just have one shooter there. Teams yes, trying to deliver the head shot, for obvious reasons in most cases you don't want just one person alone as a sniper.
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Re: Conflicting versions on grassy knoll/fence shooter

Postby Bob » Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:30 pm

I believe the man spotted near Jimmy Files was Jack Ruby. Now, that does not mean Ruby was a spotter for Files, it just means he was near Files at the time of the shooting. And remember, Files knew that Ruby would not be a problem, as he had already witnessed Ruby meeting with Johnny Roselli earlier that morning.

Files also said he saw Ruby in Dealey Plaza as well. So did other people.

Listen to what Lee Bowers said, when he saw two men near the picket fence prior to the assassination...

"One was "middle-aged" and "fairly heavyset," wearing a white shirt and dark trousers. The other was "mid-twenties" in either a plaid shirt or plaid coat... these men were the only two strangers in the area. The others were workers that I knew."

Jimmy Files was wearing a plaid jacket, which he reversed after the assassination. So...who matches the description of the other man? Jack Ruby.

Plus, in reading JFK vs. CIA by Michael Calder, we learn that three witnesses saw Ruby running from the knoll area after the shooting. Jean Hill, J.C. Prince and Tom Tilson (an off-duty DPD patrolman). Tilson said the man looked enough like Ruby to be his "twin".

Jean Hill said this...

"I saw a man up there running, or getting away. He was right up there by the school book depository, just not at the corner where they say the shots came from, at the other end, right up the slope, at the top of the slope. I saw him go towards the railroad tracks, towards the tracks to the west. I just thought at the time, that's the man that did it."
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Re: Conflicting versions on grassy knoll/fence shooter

Postby Tom Bigg » Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:23 pm

Thanks for the feedback. But Ruby next to Oswald was the most associated local personage after the assassination, so why didn't the witnesses identify him and say it was Ruby? And Files did not say that Ruby was there which he would have because he was dead, so no issue on naming names of the perps..

And we still have no motive for Ruby's involvement, who would subject themselves to certain jail as he did killing JHO?
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Re: Conflicting versions on grassy knoll/fence shooter

Postby Bob » Mon Nov 27, 2017 4:38 pm

Tom, three witnesses did say that they saw Jack Ruby running from the grassy knoll area, as I documented in my post. This information came from Michael Calder's great book, JFK vs. CIA.

Also, Jimmy Files did see Ruby in Dealey Plaza that day (see Files on JFK), plus saw Ruby give Johnny Roselli the envelope that contained information regarding the hit on JFK earlier that morning. Bottom line, Files knew that Ruby caused no threat to him if he was in his vicinity.

Finally, Files was focused on one thing and one thing only that day behind the picket fence. That was JFK, if he hadn't been killed before the point of no return, which would have been when Files took his shot.
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Re: Conflicting versions on grassy knoll/fence shooter

Postby Tommy Wilkens » Mon Nov 27, 2017 5:31 pm

Conflicting versions on grassy knoll/fence shooter.....Conflicting versions on how many shots were fired....Conflicting versions on what direction the shots came from.....Conflicting versions of how many shots came from the Depository Building.....Conflicting versions of how many shooters were in Dealey Plaza....Conflicting version of did the limousine come to a stop or not....Conflicting versions of altered photographs.....Conflicting versions of a botched autopsy......The crazy list is non ending.... So is it any wonder that anybody and his brother can claim to have shot and killed JFK and know that not one damn thing will happen to them.Just yesterday we heard from Bruce Brycheck that if James Files was asked to submit to a Voice Stress testing a room full of people broke out in laughter as if the question was but a joke and the answer was "NO" !!! And then this Forum was told that James Files thinks that 95% of the JFK Research Community actually need to Get A Life, and are merely seeking to belong to something.I don't know about the rest of you here on this Forum but I am not trying to belong to anything.I thought we were all here seeking the same truth ?


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Re: Conflicting versions on grassy knoll/fence shooter

Postby Slav » Mon Nov 27, 2017 6:57 pm

Tommy
I’m not sure what’s going on here, this is another mystery in the jfk story, to say the people needs to get a life is confusing, then what is to be said of the people that have seminars and conferences for days in secret to discuss the jfk matter?
Why even mention secret conferences I thought we were all on the same team.
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Re: Conflicting versions on grassy knoll/fence shooter

Postby Tommy Wilkens » Mon Nov 27, 2017 7:52 pm

I totally agree Slav.I don't know what's going on here in this Forum either.How did it make you feel Slav and all the other members of this Forum to read that reply by Bruce Brycheck ?? I'm not sure if they didn't just show there hand to us all.A small group sitting in a room up in Chicago reading the Forum posts and getting a big laugh out of it.And when asked to do something that would help prove honesty it's laughed off as a big joke to them and the reply was NO.And then turn around and tell the people who have dedicated years and years to researching this case they need to get a life.And that most JFK assassination researchers just want to belong to something !! How did that make members of this Forum JFK Murder Solved Forum feel reading that Bruce Brycheck and a group of close friends are sitting in a room up in Chicago laughing at post's that are made here on this Forum ?
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Re: Conflicting versions on grassy knoll/fence shooter

Postby Tom Bigg » Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:07 pm

OK, so Files had no spotter with him, does he say anything about the men with fake SS badges, I don't remember if he did?

The influential Douglass book makes no mention of Files, though Ruby has a very active role.

I'm just trying to line up various credible versions. What the deaf mute Hoffman saw behind the fence and others like Gordon Arnold and the lady Julia Mercer who saw the official looking men with long guns on the bridge and taking one out of the pick up driven by Ruby. And Howard Hunt said it was Lucien Sarti the "French" assassin, though he claimed to not be in Dallas. Image
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Re: Conflicting versions on grassy knoll/fence shooter

Postby Bob » Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:17 pm

Let's all take a deep breath. Ah. Doesn't that feel good? I have talked and communicated with Bruce on countless occasions and have also spoken to Jimmy on a couple other occasions. Sometimes things can get a little contentious with some of the commentary here. It happens, just like in society. I don't believe Bruce/Jimmy were thumbing their noses to the forum at all. They have their own agenda which is certainly their right to have. And that goes for their opinions about the forum as well. I know for a fact that Bruce and Jimmy agree with many of the things I have posted here. And I'm also sure that they both have disagreed with my take on other posts. Let's not forget that it was Bruce who visited Jimmy on a weekly basis while he served his 25-year sentence. Bruce has always stood by Jimmy's side and every once in awhile his Irish temper can been seen in a post here and there, especially when he believes he is protecting Jimmy's back. Trust me, I know a little bit about having an Irish temper. 8) In terms of Jimmy, I do not need him to take a CVSA test or to produce the ledger. I believe his story as is. Not just because I believe his words, but also because of other sourcing that back up his words. The bottom line is we just need to chill and not take things too personally, both here and in our own lives.
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Re: Conflicting versions on grassy knoll/fence shooter

Postby Slav » Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:29 pm

In the Video that JF made you can see by his body language he is telling the truth it to me is what sold me on his story it’s very truthful, as far as him not knowing who the other people or shooters were involved I don’t believe I believe he knows a lot more than he told , I think the fact that Tommy was making is for everyone else who is a doubter is to have this test done, even this test was done there would still be people who won’t believe even if there was a video they would not believe there is always the other side who goes against what all others believe just to be different.
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Re: Conflicting versions on grassy knoll/fence shooter

Postby Tommy Wilkens » Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:53 pm

Bob I appreciate your reply and your thoughts.I'm just a bit set back by Bruce Brycheck's reply to my post .The thought of a small group sitting in a room in Chicago and reading this Forum's post's and then joking about them and laughing at what was posted .Is it just me here or did that seem rude and crude and just plain wrong ?? Bob I know your a good friend with Bruce Brycheck and I accept that and I like to think of you as a friend of mine and I appreciate your thoughts and ideals and no matter what you ever posted here on this Forum I would always show respect to your thoughts and ideals but come on now that reply by Bruce Brycheck was way out of bounds and I really think you know it.I've taken a step back and a deep breath and reread the post and I got the very same slap in the face feeling.
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Re: Conflicting versions on grassy knoll/fence shooter

Postby Bob » Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:33 pm

Tommy, I appreciate what you are saying. But I think you may recall in a previous post not too long ago, you basically called out Bruce. You later apologized. Those types of things can simmer in the back of one's mind. All that being said, knowing Bruce like I do, and knowing you like I think I do, this "anger" will dissipate soon.
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Re: Conflicting versions on grassy knoll/fence shooter

Postby Tommy Wilkens » Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:19 pm

OK Bob maybe your right.And yes I did call him on a post and later I felt I had been to hard and did apologize for my heavy handed post.That's the way it's done.But showing fairness and standing up and recognizing a wrong should go both ways .Not just one way.Plus this is so childish .This is nothing but a internet public Forum.No one is forced to come here.I have chosen to be a member here and have tried to contribute. If I have insulted anyone here or pissed anyone off here I surely didn't mean to do that.I will continue to show fairness here as I have tried to do since signing up as a member a number of years ago now.
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