Doug Horne

Knowing the truth about the Kennedy Assassination is understanding America today.

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Doug Horne

Postby Bob » Sun Apr 13, 2014 5:14 pm

I've talked about Doug Horne many times in this forum. He wrote a fantastic book called Inside The ARRB which comes in five volumes. Volume IV is exceptional. as it explains what happened with JFK's body at Bethesda Naval Hospital the night of the assassination, plus it also talks about what happened to the Zapruder film the very weekend of the assassination.

At Bethesda, it becomes clear that the Secret Service, led by Roy Kellerman and Bill Greer, were running a scam trying to cover their tracks in the actual assassination. There were two procedures with JFK's body there. First there was a pre-autopsy procedure (trying to change the wounds to show all the shots came from behind) and then the actual autopsy. A key witness, Thom Robinson, witnessed them both.

We also find out that the CIA had their hands on the Zapruder film the weekend of the assassination, and the film we see today looks nothing like the film that was witnessed then.

If you haven't read Horne's book, you need to. Start with Volume IV.

Also, Ken has posted this piece recently, but here is a fantastic article by Horne, which explains how, why and when JFK's body was taken out of the original casket on Air Force One and how the JFK's body got to Bethesda.

http://assassinationofjfk.net/the-af1-t ... id-happen/

Here is part of that article...

WHY WAS JFK’S BODY REMOVED FROM THE DALLAS CASKET ONBOARD AIR FORCE ONE, AND WHEN?

Author William Manchester makes quite clear in his 1967 book, The Death of a President, that there was a prolonged, serious, intense, and acrimonious struggle for custody of President Kennedy’s body at Parkland hospital on November 22, 1963 after he was pronounced dead. The Dallas County Medical Examiner, forensic pathologist Dr. Earl Rose, was adamant that he perform a Texas autopsy in accordance with Texas law; and the Secret Service was equally adamant that they would not permit a Texas autopsy, and insisted on taking President Kennedy’s body back to Washington without an autopsy being performed in Texas. His vivid description of this battle can be found on pages 297-305. Another account can be found in the DVD video of the documentary “The Men Who Killed Kennedy,” in which Oneal funeral home ambulance driver Aubrey Rike and Dr. Paul Peters of Parkland Hospital describe, in front of the motion picture camera, the intense (and at times, profane) altercation as they witnessed it.

Never mind that William Manchester sides with the Secret Service and the desires of the emotionally overwrought Kennedy entourage, and viciously criticizes Earl Rose for bad judgment. For what it’s worth, Dr. Rose had the law behind him, and the Secret Service did not. There was no Federal jurisdiction over an assassinated President at the time, and Texas law prevailed. We know now, in hindsight, that the autopsy performed at Bethesda Naval Hospital that night was badly flawed at the very least (that is the most charitable thing we can say about it today). In view of the improper and substandard procedures followed at the Bethesda autopsy; in view of the fact that many autopsy photos known to have been taken are now missing; in view of the fact that the three surviving skull x-rays (at least two are missing) are not originals, but are altered copy films; in view of the fact that some autopsy notes were burned and other notes are missing, that the first draft of the autopsy report was burned, that one signed copy is now missing, and the extant copy in the National Archives is the third written version of the autopsy protocol; in view of the fact that the brain photos in the JFK autopsy collection at the National Archives cannot be photos of JFK’s brain; and in view of the fact that President Kennedy’s brain is now missing—in view of all these facts, all Americans who want to know what really happened to President Kennedy in 1963 surely wish that an honest and honorable professional like Dr. Rose had been allowed to do his job and perform an honest and competent autopsy on John F. Kennedy’s body. If Dr. Rose had been allowed to do his job, I do not think we would now be faced with the massive cover-up that surrounds the medical evidence in JFK’s assassination.

The point here is to emphasize that for about 30 minutes, the Dallas County Medical Examiner courageously stood his ground and attempted to prevent the theft of President Kennedy’s body from Parkland Hospital by the Secret Service. Ultimately, the Secret Service agents with the Dallas casket (which was on a wheeled conveyance called a “church truck”) pulled aside their coats and showed their weapons, and literally threatened to run Dr. Rose over with the casket (per Dr. Peters, who witnessed the altercation) if he did not get out of the way. Dr. Rose was pushed aside by Secret Agents and other members of the Kennedy entourage, and the Dallas casket, with JFK’s body inside, was spirited away to Love Field in an Oneal Funeral Home ambulance.

The casket was taken onboard Air Force One via the port aft passenger door (the Presidential door) at 2:14 PM local time (CST). It was placed on the port side (left-hand side) of the aircraft in the aft compartment, after several seats had been removed to make room for the coffin, prior to its arrival. Jacqueline Kennedy boarded the aircraft at 2:18 PM. The swearing-in of the new President, Lyndon Baines Johnson, took place at 2:38 PM. Air Force One (SAM 26000) took off at 2:47 local time, and its wheels touched down at Andrews AFB two hours and thirteen minutes later, at 6:00 PM EST. At time 6:04 PM, the wheels were “on the blocks” (i.e., the chocks were in place).

As previously discussed above, we know that President Kennedy’s body arrived at the Bethesda Naval Hospital morgue loading dock, in an aluminum shipping casket, at 6:35 PM; and we know that the bronze Dallas ceremonial casket (in which JFK’s body left Dallas) was not driven up in front of the Bethesda complex until 20 minutes later, that it remained stationary for twelve minutes in its Navy ambulance, and was not set down in the morgue anteroom by the four Federal agents who offloaded it until about 7:17 PM, over 40 minutes later. Therefore, we know that the bronze Dallas casket must have been empty when it was offloaded from AF1 on national television shortly after 6:05 PM on November 22, 1963.

So when was JFK’s body removed from the Dallas casket, and why?

The “why” seems obvious to me. The Secret Service was intent upon preventing a Texas autopsy—anyone who has read my book, Inside the Assassination Records Review Board, will understand that the Secret Service could not under any circumstances allow an honest autopsy of President Kennedy’s remains. An honest autopsy would have revealed that he was shot from both the front and from behind, and was a victim of crossfire, and therefore of a conspiracy. The goal of the “dirty” Secret Service agents in the immediate aftermath of the assassination—those involved in the coup—was to spirit the body to a designated site where the “crime scene” (i.e., the body) could be “sanitized”—that is, where all evidence of frontal shots [both frontal entrance wounds and bullet fragments] could be removed from the body—hence, the extended altercation at Parkland Hospital with Dr. Rose and law enforcement officers over the custody of the body. [It was necessary to remove all evidence of frontal shots prior to autopsy so that the autopsy results would conform with the official cover story or “legend,” namely, that JFK had been shot by a lone gunman, firing from above and behind him, in the Texas School Book Depository.] Given the intense and prolonged nature of the altercation between Dr. Earl Rose and Roy Kellerman and his men at Parkland, I conclude that JFK’s body was removed from the Dallas casket immediately after it was taken onboard Air Force One as a “security precaution” by the coup plotters, in case Dr. Rose and local law enforcement arrived, unannounced, to take custody of President Kennedy’s remains.

This possibility must have seemed very real to Roy Kellerman and his Secret Service compatriots—the altercation at Parkland Hospital had been intense and had nearly required physical violence for its resolution. There is no other logical or rational reason I can think of for removing JFK’s body from the Dallas casket after it was taken onboard Air Force One. This is the only reasonable explanation. This was the beginning of the medical cover-up in the JFK assassination.

The “when” is also fairly obvious. After the swearing-in of LBJ, at 2:38 PM, the Kennedy entourage maintained a vigil, an “Irish wake,” beside the casket in the aft compartment of the aircraft, throughout the entire flight. So the body could not have been removed from the Dallas casket at any time after the swearing-in. In fact, Manchester writes that even during the swearing-in, JFK’s loyal and distraught Air Force Aide, General Godfrey McHugh (who had refused at attend the swearing-in of LBJ), was standing at attention beside the casket of the fallen Commander-in-Chief. So the only opportunity for Secret Service agents to remove JFK’s body from the Dallas casket would have been immediately after it was taken onboard at 2:14 PM, and prior to the swearing-in at 2:38 PM. Jacqueline Kennedy boarded at 2:18 PM, and Manchester tells us in The Death of a President that she immediately went to the bedroom on the airplane to compose herself. Manchester also writes about a state of pandemonium shortly after the casket came onboard during which Godfrey McHugh went forward to the cockpit more than once to demand that the aircraft take off immediately. It is apparent, therefore, that the best and only opportunity for the Secret Service to remove JFK’s body from the Dallas casket was between 2:18 PM (when Jackie Kennedy boarded) and 2:38 PM (the time of LBJ’s swearing-in). This might have rather handily been accomplished under cover of some excuse like: “Please clear the compartment, while we secure the casket to the deck.” The body would presumably have been spirited out of the aft starboard galley door, which was in the same aft compartment of the airplane where the casket was located. (See the diagram titled “Plan of Air Force One” at the end of Manchester’s book.) JFK researcher and Air Force One expert James Sawa agrees with me that the body was almost certainly taken out of the starboard aft galley door. As documented by Manchester, there was an ongoing luggage transfer at Love Field of LBJ’s luggage from Air Force Two (SAM 86970) to Air Force One (SAM 26000), which would have provided the opportunity to place JFK’s body (which had been wrapped in two sheets at Parkland Hospital, one around his head and one around his body) in either the forward or aft luggage compartment of Air Force One. The aft luggage compartment seems more likely to me than the forward luggage compartment, based upon the photographs of the two luggage compartments taken by Sawa and displayed during his 2003 presentation at the Cyril Wecht Conference at DuQuesne University. The forward luggage compartment, per Sawa’s photographs, was very crowded and contained large electronics cabinets, filled with radio equipment, that left minimal space for cargo; the aft luggage compartment, per Sawa’s photos, was an unobstructed space with a very long longitudinal bench, devoted solely to cargo stowage. There was plenty of space for a human body lying in a horizontal position in the aft luggage compartment, based on Sawa’s photograph, taken at the Air Force Museum in Dayton, Ohio.

In summary, David Lifton’s conclusion in his 1981 book Best Evidence, that JFK’s body must have been spirited away in an Air Force One luggage compartment prior to takeoff, still stands up today, since we know unequivocally that it was taken onboard in the bronze Dallas casket (per ambulance driver Aubrey Rike, who saw the lid closed at Parkland and who stated that the casket was never opened before going onboard the aircraft at Love Field)—and since it could no longer have been inside the Dallas casket when it was offloaded at Andrews (per Dennis David and Sergeant Roger Boyajian).

And guess what? There is a reference in the new Clifton version of the Air Force One tapes to something going on with the body prior to takeoff. I will quote below from the verbatim transcript I made in 2012, from a radio conversation between Roy Kellerman (code name “Digest”) and his boss at the White House Situation Room, the Head of the White House Secret Service Detail, Gerald Behn (code name “Duplex”), at time 32:21 on the GPO/NARA MP3 sound file:


Digest: …we’re at the airport, 26000, everybody aboard.
Duplex: OK, go ahead.
Digest: We’re waiting for the swearing-in at the plane before takeoff.
Duplex: Of the—that’s of Volunteer [LBJ’s code name]?
Digest: Roger.
Duplex: Say again, Roy, say again.
Digest: We are waiting for judge to appear for swearing-in.
Duplex: That is for Volunteer, is that right?
Digest: Yes, we are having one, ah [garbled] to have it done here before we take off, Jerry.
Duplex: That’s affirmative. Do you have any idea yet what, ah, Lace (Jackie Kennedy) wants to do and what Volunteer wants to do on their arrival here?
Digest: No. I will call you back. Suggest—we have a 2 hour 15 flight into Andrews. We have a full plane of at least 40.
Duplex: OK, go ahead.
Digest: I’ll have to call you again after—after the, ah, body. Ah, however, I’m sure the, ah, Volunteer boys will go over his car and so forth. We will need [garbled] and several others.

Shortly after this exchange Kellerman terminated the conversation. The quote speaks for itself, I think: “I’ll have to call you again after the, ah, body.” Something that was happening with “the body”—after it had been taken onboard—caused Kellerman to have to sign off. This is consistent with my conclusion that JFK’s body must have been removed from the Dallas casket shortly after it was taken onboard, and before the swearing-in of LBJ. Remember, the Dallas casket was taken onboard at 2:14 PM, four minutes before Jackie Kennedy boarded at 2:18 PM. Kellerman told Behn that everyone was onboard (which means it was past 2:18 PM when he commenced this conversation), and said twice that everyone was waiting for the swearing-in, which means the swearing-in had not yet happened. And during this period, between 2:18 and 2:38 PM, something was taking place with “the, ah, body.” Something that caused Kellerman to say he would have to call Behn back.


Also, please check out this article by Horne about the two events the CIA had with the Zapruder film the weekend of the assassination. It points towards definite alteration of the original film.

http://assassinationofjfk.net/the-two-n ... lteration/

Here is just part of that article...

The Head Explosion:

As discussed earlier in this paper, Dino Brugioni opined during his July 9, 2011 interview with the author that the head explosion seen today in the extant Zapruder film is markedly different from what he saw on 11/23/63, when he worked with what he is certain was the camera-original film. The head explosion he recalls was much bigger than the one seen today in frame 313 of the extant film (going “three or four feet into the air”); was a “white cloud” that did not exhibit any of the pink or red color seen in frame 313 today; and was of such a duration that he is quite sure that in the film he viewed in 1963, there were many more frames than just one graphically depicting the fatal head shot on the film he viewed in 1963. Mr. Brugioni cannot, and does not, accept frame 313 of the extant Zapruder film as an accurate or complete representation of the fatal head shot he saw in the camera-original Zapruder film on the Saturday evening following President Kennedy’s assassination.

He is supported in this view by two other opinions.

Erwin Schwartz, Abraham Zapruder’s business partner, told interviewer Noel Twyman on November 21, 1994 that when he viewed the original film on Friday, November 22, 1963, he saw biological debris from the head explosion propelled to the left rear of the President when he viewed the film. This debris pattern is not visible on the film today, but dovetails with the consistent recollections of motorcycle officer Bobby W. Hargis, who was hit with great force at the time of the head shot by debris travelling to the left rear.[32]
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Re: Doug Horne

Postby kenmurray » Mon Apr 14, 2014 5:19 am

Excellent post Bob! Here is an audio interview of Richard Lipsey who guarded JFK's body during whole term of the autopsy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9UZz07eNMc
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Re: Doug Horne

Postby Bob » Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:49 pm

Thanks, Ken. Excellent stuff once again!
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Re: Doug Horne

Postby kenmurray » Sat Apr 19, 2014 3:15 pm

Jerrol Custer was a key witness too. Here is an audio interview he did before the AARB:

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/ ... Custer.htm
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Re: Doug Horne

Postby kenmurray » Thu Aug 07, 2014 5:28 am

The Zapruder Film Mystery:

http://vimeo.com/102327635
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Re: Doug Horne

Postby kenmurray » Fri Sep 26, 2014 3:14 am

Doug Horne returns to the Real Deal to discuss the medical evidence in this interview. A must listen!

http://nwopodcast.com/fetz/media/jim%20 ... 20sept.mp3
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Re: Doug Horne

Postby JDB4JFK » Fri Sep 26, 2014 10:27 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7o4oeOJ ... detailpage

Wow good stuff there Ken. Both Doug Horne and Fetzer think the limo was stopped up to 10 seconds! Kind of puts the Zapruder film that we have seen to be majorly alter. Sixty witnesses said it came to a stop! Also puts the blame and a major cover up on to the Secret Service! I would like to interview Clint Hill one more time and see how he lies out of this!
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Re: Doug Horne

Postby Bob » Sat Oct 04, 2014 11:59 am

kenmurray wrote:Doug Horne returns to the Real Deal to discuss the medical evidence in this interview. A must listen!

http://nwopodcast.com/fetz/media/jim%20 ... 20sept.mp3


Wow! No doubt about this being a must listen, Ken! Excellent stuff once again, Abraken Linkin! 8)
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Re: Doug Horne

Postby kenmurray » Mon Oct 06, 2014 2:40 am

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Re: Doug Horne

Postby kenmurray » Mon Oct 06, 2014 2:41 am

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Re: Doug Horne

Postby kenmurray » Mon Oct 06, 2014 2:42 am

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Re: Doug Horne

Postby kenmurray » Mon Oct 06, 2014 2:43 am

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Re: Doug Horne

Postby kenmurray » Mon Oct 06, 2014 2:45 am

Altered History Part 5 (Conclusion):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkV17jsiLOk
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Re: Doug Horne

Postby Bob » Mon Oct 06, 2014 2:30 pm

Excellent find once again, Ken. I'm still on Part 1, but this is fascinating material.
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Re: Doug Horne

Postby kenmurray » Mon Oct 06, 2014 3:52 pm

Doug Horne knows how to do a lecture. Always well prepared! 8)
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