Who killed these people?

Knowing the truth about the Kennedy Assassination is understanding America today.

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Who killed these people?

Postby dankbaar » Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:29 pm

Richard Cain, Rose Cheramie and David Ferrie?
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Re: Who killed these people?

Postby Dealey Joe » Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:48 pm

when James FIles was asked if he knew how Ferrie dies he said yes and laughingly said nawww I am not admitting that, when asked if he did it?
Although he did not admit it his body language said yes?

I don't know about the other two.
Cain died a couiple years before Giancana
Rose did not quite make it 2 years after JFK.
confusion about her death. Ran over and possibly shot in the head?
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Rose Cheramie: How She Predicted The JFK Assassination

Postby kenmurray » Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:56 pm

On November 20, 1963, Lt. Francis Fruge of the Louisiana State Police received a phone call from Moosa Memorial Hospital in Eunice. A Mrs. Louise Guillory, the hospital administrator told him that there was an accident victim in the emergency ward. Guillory knew that Fruge worked the narcotics detail and she felt that the woman was under the influence of drugs.

Fruge immediately left for the hospital. When he got there he encountered a middle-aged white female sitting down in the waiting room outside emergency. There were no serious injuries; only bruises and abrasions. She was only partly coherent. But Moosa was a private hospital and since the woman seemed bereft of funds, Guillory had called Fruge to see what he could do to help. The woman identified herself to Fruge as Rose Cheramie.

Fruge had no choice at the time except to place Cheramie in the Eunice City Jail. He then went out to attend the Eunice Police Department’s Annual Ball. About an hour later a police officer came over to the function and told Fruge that Cheramie was undergoing withdrawal symptoms. Fruge came back and, after recognizing the condition, called a local doctor, Dr. Derouin, from the coroner’s office. Derouin administered a sedative via syringe to calm her down. The doctor then suggested that she be removed from the jail and taken to the state facility in Jackson. After Fruge agreed, Derouin called the facility at about midnight on the 20th and made arrangements for her delivery there. Afterwards, Fruge called Charity Hospital in Lafayette and ordered an ambulance for the transport to the hospital.

Fruge accompanied Cheramie to the hospital. And, according to his House Select Committee deposition, it was at this point that Rose began to relate her fascinating and astonishing tale. Calmed by the sedative, and according to Fruge, quite lucid, she began to respond to some routine questions with some quite unusual answers. She told him that she was en route from Florida to Dallas with two men who looked Cuban or Italian. The men told her that they were going to kill the president in Dallas in just a few days. Cheramie herself was not part of the plot but apparently the men were also part of a large dope ring with Rose since Cheramie’s function was as a courier of funds for heroin which was to be dropped off to her by a seaman coming into the port of Galveston. She was to pick up the money for the drugs from a man who was holding her child. It seemed a quite intricate dope ring since she was then to transport the heroin to Mexico. The two men were supposed to accompany her to Mexico but the whole transaction got short-circuited on Highway 190 near Eunice. In the confines of a seedy bar called the Silver Slipper Lounge, Cheramie’s two friends were met by a third party. Rose left with the two men she came with. But a short distance away from the bar, an argument apparently ensued. And although some have written that she was thrown out of the vehicle and hit by an oncoming car, according to Fruge, Rose said that the argument took place inside the Silver Slipper, and that the two men and the manager, Mac Manual, threw her out. While hitchhiking on the 190, she was hit by a car driven by one Frank Odom. It was Odom who then delivered her to Moosa. As Fruge so memorably recalled to Jonathan Blackmer of the HSCA, Cheramie summed up her itinerary in Dallas in the following manner: "She said she was going to, number one, pick up some money, pick up her baby, and to kill Kennedy." (p. 9 of Fruge’s 4/18/78 deposition)

At the hospital, Cheramie again predicted the assassination. On November 22nd, several nurses were watching television with Cheramie. According to these witnesses, "…during the telecast moments before Kennedy was shot Rose Cheramie stated to them, ‘This is when it is going to happen’ and at that moment Kennedy was assassinated. The nurses, in turn, told others of Cheramie’s prognostication." (Memo of Frank Meloche to Louis Ivon, 5/22/67. Although the Dallas motorcade was not broadcast live on the major networks, the nurses were likely referring to the spot reports that circulated through local channels in the vicinity of the trip. Of course, the assassination itself was reported on by network television almost immediately after it happened.) Further, according to a psychiatrist there, Dr. Victor Weiss, Rose "…told him that she knew both Ruby and Oswald and had seen them sitting together on occasions at Ruby’s club." (Ibid., 3/13/67) In fact, Fruge later confirmed the fact that she had worked as a stripper for Ruby. (Louisiana State Police report of 4/4/67.)

Fruge had discounted Cheramie’s earlier comments to him as drug-induced delusions. Or, as he said to Blackmer, "When she came out with the Kennedy business, I just said, wait a minute, wait a minute, something wrong here somewhere." (Fruge, HSCA deposition, p. 9) He further described her in this manner:

Now, bear in mind that she talked: she’d talk for awhile, looks like the shots would have effect on her again and she’d go in, you know, she’d just get numb, and after awhile she’d just start talking again. (Ibid.)

But apparently, at the time of the assassination Cheramie appeared fine. The word spread throughout the hospital that she had predicted Kennedy’s murder in advance. Dr. Wayne Owen, who had been interning from LSU at the time, later told the Madison Capital Times that he and other interns were told of the plot in advance of the assassination. Amazingly, Cheramie even predicted the role of her former boss Jack Ruby because Owen was quoted as saying that one of the interns was told "…that one of the men involved in the plot was a man named Jack Rubinstein." (2/11/68) Owen said that they shrugged it off at the time. But when they learned that Rubinstein was Ruby they grew quite concerned. "We were all assured that something would be done about it by the FBI or someone. Yet we never heard anything." (Ibid.) In fact, Cheramie’s association with Ruby was also revealed to Dr. Weiss. For in an interview with him after the assassination, Rose revealed that she had worked as a drug courier for Jack Ruby. (Memo of Frank Meloche to Jim Garrison, 2/23/67) In the same memo, there is further elaboration on this important point:

I believe she also mentioned that she worked in the night club for Ruby and that she was forced to go to Florida with another man whom she did not name to pick up a shipment of dope to take back to Dallas, that she didn’t want to do this thing but she had a young child and that they would hurt her child if she didn’t.

These comments are, of course, very revealing about Ruby’s role in both an intricate drug smuggling scheme and, at the least, his probable acquaintance with men who either had knowledge of, or were actually involved in, the assassination. This is a major point in this story which we will return to later.

Although Fruge had discounted the Cheramie story on November 20th, the events of the 22nd made him a believer. Right after JFK’s murder, Fruge "…called that hospital up in Jackson and told them by no way in the world to turn her loose until I could get my hands on her." (Fruge’s HSCA deposition, p. 12.) So on November 25th, Fruge journeyed up to Jackson again to talk to Cheramie. This time he conducted a much more in-depth interview. Fruge found out that Cheramie had been traveling with the two men from Miami. He also found that the men seemed to be a part of the conspiracy rather than to be just aware of it. After the assassination, they were supposed to stop by a home in Dallas to pick up both around eight thousand dollars plus Rose’s baby. From there Cheramie was supposed to check into the Rice Hotel in Houston under an assumed name. Houston is in close proximity to Galveston, the town from which the drugs were coming in from. From Houston, once the transaction was completed, the trio were headed for Mexico.

How reliable a witness was Cheramie? Extermely. Fruge decided to have the drug deal aspect of her story checked out by the state troopers and U. S. Customs. The officers confirmed the name of the seaman on board the correct ship coming into Galveston. The Customs people checked the Rice Hotel and the reservations had been made for her under an assumed name. The contact who had the money and her baby was checked and his name showed that he was an underworld, suspected narcotics dealer. Fruge checked Cheramie’s baggage and found that one box had baby clothes and shoes inside.

Fruge flew Cheramie from Louisiana to Houston on Tuesday, the 26th. In the back seat of the small Sesna 180, a newspaper was lying between them. One of the headlines read to the effect that "investigators or something had not been able to establish a relationship between Jack Ruby and Lee Harvey Oswald." (Fruge’s HSCA deposition p. 19) When Cheramie read this headline, she started to giggle. She then added, "Them two queer sons-of-a-bitches. They’ve been shacking up for years." (Ibid.) She added that she knew this to be true from her experience of working for Ruby. Fruge then had his superior call up Captain Will Fritz of the Dallas Police to relay what an important witness Cheramie could be in his investigation. Fruge related what followed next:

Colonel Morgan called Captain Fritz up from Dallas and told him what we had, the information that we had, that we had a person that had given us this information. And of course there again it was an old friend, and there was a little conversation. But anyway, when Colonel Morgan hung up, he turned around and told us they don’t want her. They’re not interested.

Fruge then asked Cheramie if she wished to try telling her tale to the FBI. She declined. She did not wish to involve herself further. With this, the Cheramie investigation was now halted. Rose was released and Fruge went back to Louisiana. So, just four days after the assassination, with an extremely and provably credible witness alive, with her potentially explosive testimony able to be checked out, the Cheramie testimony was now escorted out to pasture. Eyewitness testimony that Ruby knew Oswald, that Ruby was somehow involved in an international drug circle, that two Latins were aware of and perhaps involved in a plot to kill Kennedy, and that Ruby probably knew the men; this incredible lead—the type investigators pine for—was being shunted aside by Fritz. It would stay offstage until Jim Garrison began to poke into the Kennedy case years later.


The rest of this article can be found in The Assassinations, edited by Jim DiEugenio and Lisa Pease.


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Re: Who killed these people?

Postby dankbaar » Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:57 pm

Rose did not quite make it 2 years after JFK.
confusion about her death. Ran over and possibly shot in the head?

Always in the head.


See how Jimmy laughs about using a shotgun on a man, he would shoot him in the head with it? "If I did do that"

He is referring to Richard Cain.
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Hit Parade

Postby Phil Dragoo » Thu Jun 23, 2011 7:27 am

A five-paragraph excerpt of John Kays' article on Rose Cheramie

http://newsblaze.com/story/201007190650 ... story.html

A speeding motorist swerves to miss some suitcases positioned right in the middle of the road. This happened at 2:30 in the morning and the driver, Jerry Don Moore, had been drinking heavily; a further concern is that his vehicle is in bad need of repair. To the side of the road a woman is lying with her head just slightly in the street. Moore is not able to avoid her and runs over her head, though he finds himself in denial of this gruesome fact.

This is seemingly the way in which Rose Cheramie met her untimely death. This incident occurred on September 4, 1965 on an obscure Texas Highway 155, 1.7 miles east of the town of Big Sandy. What Rose was doing there is anybody's guess. It is known, however, that she frequently hitchhiked around. Exactly what she was up to on these hitchhiking soirees is a good subject for conjecture.

I will ask you to read Chris Mills' paper titled Rambling Rose for quite a bit of interesting detail on Rose's death. But I must disclose a few items for you so that you can see just how many loose ends exist in the shaky circumstances surrounding her death. One thing is that Lt. Fruge, in his investigation for Jim Garrison, had observed that Highway 155 was a farm to market road.

This implies that it is unlikely that Rose would be seeking a ride on this lonely road. It also implies that she may have been placed there, in such a way that she would most certainly be hit by a vehicle. The placement of the suitcases would force a car to swerve around them and to hit a horizontally planted, unconscious Rose. Also, Jerry Don Moore noticed a 1963 or 1964 red Chevrolet parked at a rest stop across from the scene of the accident.

The suspicious occupants of this red Chevrolet may have staged this scene to cover up a deliberate murder, and make it look like an accident. Just a few other things before we leave this unresolved ending to Rose's life. An autopsy was performed, but this document was lost. However, hospital records do confirm that the victim had a "deep punctuate stellate wound above her right forehead."

This wound is generally associated with a contact gunshot wound. This would mean that Rose was shot, then placed in the road purposely to try and force an accident. An investigating officer with the Texas Highway Patrol, J.A. Andrews, when interviewed by Lt. Fruge, did not believe this was just a random accident. I am certain myself that Rose was murdered to shut her up, but of course I can't prove it.

Exit questions: Was the 1963 or 1964 red Chevrolet that of Jimmy Files? Who else suffered a wound above his right forehead and who has claimed responsibility? Cheramie names Sergio Arcacha Smith, an associate of Eladio del Valle and David Ferrie who died within 24 hours of each other on February 22, 1967.

Richard Cain who shot off his mouth had his mouth shot off December 20, 1973. From Double-Cross Page 487:

According to police reports, the murder took place in broad daylight at Rose's Sandwich Shop. There, Cain lunched with several unidentified men. These men got up and left while Cain remained alone at his table. Soon after, two men, wearing ski masks and toting shotguns, entered the shop. They swiftly lined the diner's terrified inhabitants against the wall.

Witnesses reported that one of the gunmen sported a black glove on his left hand, a white one on his right, while hais gloveless accomplice carried a walkie-talkie. Witnesses stated that the man with the walkie-talkie held it to his mouthand said, “Who's got the package?” He repeated this question several times until finally a reply came back: “Here comes a guy now; maybe he's got the package.” Hearing tose words, the strangely gloved man walked up to Cain and fired two shotgun blasts at point-blank range into his brain. After briefly searching Cain's pockets, the two walked rapidly out the door, disappearing forever.

There were several intriguing features to this incident. Certainly, it was unlike any Outfit hit in the history of Chicago.

Since the flamboyant days of Al Capone, the Chicago Outfit's professional assassins had shunned witnesses, preferring the cover of darkness to accomplish their ends. There was little question Cain could have been hit at night; his whereabouts were no secret to anyone in the Outfit desiring to harm him.

Another element that didn't make sense was the use of walkie-talkies; such a thing was considered “silly” by macho Italian killers.

But most interesting were the two mismatched gloves on the hands of Cain's killer.

It seemed probable to Chuck that the two gloves were a bold message from the collaborators in Cain's execution—a message only Cain himself would recognize. Very likely, they represented the two forces he knew all too well: the Latin American CIA “White Hand” and the “Black Hand” of Sam Giancana.

Final question: Was there a red Chevy outside Rose's Sandwich Shop?
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Re: Who killed these people?

Postby dankbaar » Thu Jun 23, 2011 8:52 am

First of all, Jimmy will deny all of this for the record. Just like he did with David Ferrie. Just like Chauncey Holt denied being the triggerman for Siegel.

So formally speaking, I am talking out of my ass. ;)

Your answer to the Red Ford question is yes. And Jerry Don Moore didn't run over her head. That hat been done before. But since there was no explanation, Jerry was blamed.

On Cain, I do not know why he was killed. Whether it was ordered by Caifano, Giancana or the government or both.

And whether I say Jimmy was the shooter, doesn't matter, as Cain's halfbrother Michael doesn't want to believe either.

But I tell you about a sitdown I had with Files the day before the camera interview. I asked him if he were not concerned about being spotted by witnesses in a fairly open area as the grassy knoll. He said no and started explaining that when there is a shooting, people don't look, but duck in shock. Their instinctive concern is to get away rather than to observe and register. He then offered a further illustration: I've killed people in public places, even in restaurants. He corrected himself slightly by saying: Maybe that's not a good example because I was wearing a skimask.

He went on to give me a rather funny anecdote. He told me he was stealing a car one day in public parking lot. And a very old lady came up to him and asked: What are you doing to that car, young man? And he answered: I am stealing it! So she said, I guess somewhat surprised by the frankness: Oh! ......Can I watch? And Files said: Sure you can!

I don't know if it's true but have no reason to doubt it. And Jimmy's "lesson" was quite educative.

I saw this mafia shooting on Youtube just a few days ago. Pay attention to the bystander woman. What does she do?

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Re: Who killed these people?

Postby Bob Jonas » Sun Nov 29, 2015 5:25 am

dankbaar wrote:He (James Files) went on to give me a rather funny anecdote. He told me he was stealing a car one day in public parking lot. And a very old lady came up to him and asked: What are you doing to that car, young man? And he answered: I am stealing it! So she said, I guess somewhat surprised by the frankness: Oh! ......Can I watch? And Files said: Sure you can! I don't know if it's true but have no reason to doubt it. And Jimmy's "lesson" was quite educative.

This is awesome and probably just the tip of the iceberg of all the amazing stories Jimmy could tell!
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Re: Who killed these people?

Postby Tom Bigg » Sun Nov 29, 2015 1:31 pm

Most civilized people would never even think of stealing, doing violence, killing, etc., but it is what gives bad people a thrill and a livlihood, even Aristotle speaks of the occupation of brigands. I have heard some coin dealers employing organized criminals to get their "problems" solved.

And Files speaks about his cohort later on the day of the assassination coming by his hotel, the mobster who killed Officer Tippet, after Files had showered and gotten all residue of the shot off him with wax. He was surprised to see the other hired gun there and basically told him to get lost.
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