The Shooters

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The Shooters

Postby Shane » Thu Jun 09, 2011 6:08 pm

I have been reading and digging for information that will give me an idea of who the shooters were on Dealy Plaza, where they were located, and where Kennedy was actually struck.

I will present the information I have, and if anyone can add to it, or provide a different opinion from your own research, I would be grateful.

From what I have read and the videos I have watched, I am under the impression JFK was hit four times: once in the back, once in the throat, and twice in the head (almost simultaneously).

From my research, the shooters are as follows:
Charles Nicholetti (Dal Tex building)
Perhaps Malcolm Wallace in the Depository window with David Morales as his spotter
James Files on the Grassy Knoll positioned by the tree
And then I have received information the French assassin (Lucien Sarti) was a shooter as well
There could be more, or less. Those are simply the names I have come across where researchers claimed these men took shots.

From my research, the shots accounted for are as follows:
A shot that missed motorcade and hit the pavement behind the presidential limo
Throat shot (if this was not in fact shrapnel as some researchers state)
Back shot
Head shot from behind, right before…
James Files famous head shot from front.
A bullet found in the grass on Jackie’s side of the car (from what I have heard, from a handgun, perhaps a .45)
A bullet that struck the pavement/curb/James Tague

If Kennedy was struck in the throat and a bullet missed Kennedy and hit behind the limousine, where was the shooter stationed? James Files took only one shot from the front.

Again, I understand this is all speculation, but I would appreciate any information/speculation you may have to share on who and where.
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Re: The Shooters

Postby Bob » Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:03 pm

Shane, I posted a topic about this with the exact name almost five years ago in the forum. It got tons of responses and up to this point has over 8,200 views. Anyway, here was my original post about the subject...

Anybody who has read Wim's book or done any real research into the JFK assassination knows that Dealey Plaza was a mini-convention for people associated with the CIA/mob/anti-Castro Cubans. All of these folks were on a need to know basis only and the teams were given specific orders, but only regarding their particular functions. James Files recognized some cronies in Dealy Plaza like Frank Sturgis. But who were the shooters? We know Files and Chuck Nicoletti were two of the shooters. There is a good chance that David Morales, Richard Cain and possibly Mac Wallace were in the Texas School Book Depository and were shooters/spotters. Marshall Caifano was also most likely a shooter. Other possibilities include the participation of Charles Harrelson and "Milwaukee" Phil Alderisio. And who was the shooter that hit Kennedy below the Adam's apple? We know it wasn't Files. He fired only one shot and it had a mercury load. It had to come from either an area near Files or possibly the South knoll. Tosh Plumlee who was on the South knoll (as a member of the abort team) thought one of the shots came from near his area. Was there also an additional shooter near Files? Was there really a "Badgeman"? Chauncey Holt was not with Harrelson at the time of the shooting. Was Harrelson a shooter near Files? He had easy access to the rail car from the knoll. Holt said that Harrelson and Rogers (the other two "tramps") were already at the rail car when he arrived after the shooting. We also know that Posado Carriles and Orlando Bosch were in Dealey Plaza as well. What were their roles? Some feel that Bosch was a spotter sitting on the curb at the time of the assassination. Lots of questions still remain. Thanks to Wim and others, we have a lot of answers, but there is still a lot of work to be done.

Wim has convinced me that there wasn't a Badgeman. Plus, Wim has also convinced me that the throat wound JFK suffered was from exiting shrapnel from the mercury round Jimmy Files used on his shot. In fact, Thom Robinson who was at JFK's pre-autopsy procedure and the actual autopsy at Bethesda, said that the doctors tracked the bullet wound from JFK's right temple area to his throat. I'm sure there will be plenty of debate about this. Here's my bottom line...although finding out who the shooters are is very important, I more concerned about knowing who the conspirators were, although many of us have a pretty damn good idea as to who was involved in the plot to kill JFK and also who covered it up. At least one of the conspirators is still alive. Right Poppy?
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Re: The Shooters

Postby Davyjones » Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:09 pm

Hi Shane.
Speculation...The throat wound was small,no exit wound,probably shrapnel?
The 6th floor shooter was a late substitute for the absent Oswald. He left the 6th floor and made his way to catch and kill Oswald via bus and cab and ended up shooting Tippit then in some panic looked for help from his friend J Files.
Wallace was involved.
I doubt any other pro killers active as the other shots you mention are misses, by a long way in one case.
Files,Nicoletti and The Raven are my line up for the shooting.
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Re: The Shooters

Postby Alex Hidell » Fri Jun 10, 2011 8:18 pm

Throat shot was a direct hit from the front. EVERY medical professional who examined JFK at Parkland (13 total) said the throat wound was a wound of entrance, approx 5 mm in diameter with smooth surfaces. No mystery here and certainly not caused by shrapnel.

There was a shot that hit the chrome surrounding the windshield near the rear view mirror. A shot from behind that obviously missed.

There may have been a shot from the storm drain immediately to the front and right of the limo, approx 15 feet in front of limo at frame 313 of Z film.

Two shots came from knoll area as evidenced by most eye witnesses.
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Re: The Shooters

Postby Dealey Joe » Fri Jun 10, 2011 8:24 pm

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: The Shooters

Postby Bob » Fri Jun 10, 2011 11:50 pm

Thom Robinson also noted that exit wound fragment (shrapnel) particles were seen on JFK's face. But...let's disregard Robinson. He was only at JFK's pre-autopsy procedure and his REAL autopsy procedure. What the hell would he know? We have our own resident expert...that knows all. :shock:

Think about Parkland for a second folks. Yes...the doctors thought JFK's throat wound was an entrance wound...but it was a fart in the wind compared to JFK's massive head wound...that the doctors were much more concentrated on. JFK was as dead as a door nail that moment he took the simultaneous shots from Files and Nicoletti. The doctors knew it as soon as they saw him. But they tried to do what they could. Jackie Kennedy was there as well. They had to try and make an effort. It was a madhouse there, just like it was at Bethesda later that night. The throat wound was a secondary venture, compared to the softball sized head wound.
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Re: The Shooters

Postby dankbaar » Sat Jun 11, 2011 12:48 pm

For the throat wound, where's the bullet, and where is the exit wound?

Here it is again, my old post:


I am saying - defying the ruling consensus in the JFK research community - that the throat wound was NOT an entry wound , but an EXIT wound caused by a fragment from the explosive bullet that hit JFK in the head from the grassy knoll.

I have always believed it was caused by a complete bullet from the front, until Thom Robinson freed me from that dream.

Here are some thoughts I posted a few months ago:

Question: you are doctor with experience on bullet wounds, you see a tiny neat little round hole in a throat. What would you think first?

1) This is an entry wound of a small caliber bullet

2) This is an exit wound from a fragment of an explosive bullet that hit in the head.


Mind you, the doctors didn't know about about an explosive bullet, let alone a mercury bullet.


No, I don't blame the doctors at all. If it looks like duck, if it walks like a duck, if it sounds like duck, you're going to say it's a duck.



JFK was NOT shot in the throat.

I too have believed for a long time that he was shot in the throat. But it didn't happen. The only time that JFK COULD have been shot in the throat, was very early in the game, at the beginning of the Zapruder film. Why? Because after that, he slumps forward and his throat is not exposed anymore. It doesn't make sense for ANY shooter, not even a trigger happy one, to shoot from the front that early, if the plan was to frame a patsy from BEHIND. Moreover, it would be an EXTREMELY risky shot right thru the windshield (glass breaks the line of vision, and could also deflect the bullet path). The bullet hole, crack or whatever it was in the windshield, was the result from a missed bullet from behind over JFK's head. Just as the nick in the chrome lining was.

Additionally, his head and throat would be exposed for only a very short time, with no time to follow and aim. And the other passengers were in the way, JFK was the most rear passenger in the limo, hence an additional risk to hit someone else in the car. Finally, there was no wound of exit, neither a bullet found, found for such a shot.

The throat wound was caused by an exiting fragment , maybe even a drop of mercury from JF's mercury explosive bullet. The tiny perforations in JFK's face, as observed by embalmer Thom Robinson, were also the result of mercury drops.

Lastly, what you don't know is that I have an interview with Thom Robinson, wherein he states that the gaping hole in JFK's skull was probed with a tiny probe and that one of those probes from INSIDE the skull came out at the throat wound ! That's why he told me that he has always been very quiet about this, but that he has chuckled for all those years at the conspiracy buffs who claim JFK was shot in the throat from the front. He knew better since 1963. And I know better since I spoke to him. I should have known better earlier by listening to Jimmy, instead of to the JFK research community, and what they have brainwashed themselves with. I too was a victim of what I wanted to believe, and looked so self-evident.

James Files was right all along. He was the ONLY shooter from the front, and even he was not supposed to shoot. But he did, because JFK had not been hit in the head. Failure was never an option in a operation that Jimmy took part in, not even at age 21. That's what made him such a valuable asset for the Chicago mob and the CIA.

********

ONeill in his official report said agent Kellerman, now deceased, told him that Kennedy cried out, "My God, Ive been hit, get me to a hospital!"The second bullet hit Texas Gov. John Connally, sitting in a jump seat behind Kellerman. The third was the fatal wound to Kennedy. ONeill said recently in an interview that Kellerman insisted, when pressed how he knew it was Kennedy's voice, "I was with the man for three years, and know his voice like I know my own. And he was the only man in the back seat of the car that day who spoke with a Boston accent."

http://www.capecodtoday.com/blogs/index ... _1?blog=28

Hence another clue JFK was NOT shot in the throat and Jimmy was correct in assuming the throat wound was an exiting fragment from his exploding bullet. .

Wim
The allies of evil are ignorance, apathy and the wish to not believe.
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Re: The Shooters

Postby dankbaar » Sat Jun 11, 2011 1:29 pm

Bob, I still wonder who gave those shooters entry and exit from the TSBD.

But I have a hunch that they were Dallas Policemen on the CIA's payroll. Specificly George Butler and Carl Day.
The allies of evil are ignorance, apathy and the wish to not believe.
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Re: The Shooters

Postby Bob » Sat Jun 11, 2011 2:16 pm

dankbaar wrote:Bob, I still wonder who gave those shooters entry and exit from the TSBD.

But I have a hunch that they were Dallas Policemen on the CIA's payroll. Specificly George Butler and Carl Day.


That makes total sense to me Wim. Look at the RFK assassination in June of 1968. There is clear evidence that some in the LA police department were involved in the plot. First, there was the lack of LA police security for RFK. That is why a guy like Thane Cesar was allowed to be there. Also, the two cops that ran the investigation into RFK's death for the LA police had clear connections to the CIA. They would be Manuel Pena and Hank Hernandez.
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Re: The Shooters

Postby Alex Hidell » Sun Jun 12, 2011 2:02 am

Every single medical professional, all 13 of them, who examined the throat wound at Parkland said it ws a wound of entrance, approx 5 mm in diamater, EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM, said the same thing- that's good enough for me :P
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Re: The Shooters

Postby dankbaar » Sun Jun 12, 2011 10:19 am

Hidell,

What's your real name?

I believe you're only here to disturb and confuse.

What's your interest to be here?

Wim
The allies of evil are ignorance, apathy and the wish to not believe.
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Re: The Shooters

Postby Alex Hidell » Mon Jun 13, 2011 5:10 pm

Dankbar- Let's stick to the facts of the case NOT wild speculation. That is my interest here.

If someone doesn't agree with you they are here to confuse???????????????????? You're kidding right :lol:

Relative to the throat wound, we know several things from the eyewitness accounts-

By the way, everything I am about to cite is a matter of public record, it is not idle speculation.

Zapruder flinched with each shot. If you look at Z film, frame by frame, you can clearly see the film blur as Z flinched from hearing a gunshot. Researchers recreated the scene and filmed while a gun was fired and even when they knew the shot was coming they still flinched at the sound. It is a human fight or flight reaction to flinch at the sound of a gunshot. Bottom Line- one can't help it, it happens automatically.

Z flinches first at approx frame 155 due to inital shot that hit street behind JFK as reported by several eyewitnesses who saw sparks fly from street. Film is massviely blurred at frame 155.

Z flinches again and blurs film at approx frame 188 from second shot which clearly hits JFK in the throat because he reaches to his throat immedaiely after this shot.

To recap, first shot at approx frame 155 misses and hits street. Second shot at approx frame 188 hits JFK in throat.

As I have mentioned many times on this forum, pick up the 26 volume WC testimony. You can find them EBay. They printed the Z film frame by frame. Study it and you will see the drastic blurring of the image, with each succesive shot, from Z flinching. Do your research and get back to me on it and tell me what you think :shock:
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Re: The Shooters

Postby Wayne Stracener » Mon Jun 13, 2011 5:28 pm

Image
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Re: The Shooters

Postby Dealey Joe » Mon Jun 13, 2011 6:16 pm

Wayne Stracener wrote:Image


Good one Wayne
LMAO.
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Re: The Shooters

Postby Alex Hidell » Mon Jun 13, 2011 6:18 pm

:lol:
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